R, If I were a mass murderer on trial for my life, I'm sure with your intellect and sense of justice I could get off with a few weeks of community service.
THE SHOOTIST
JoinedPosts by THE SHOOTIST
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53
2 Samuel chapter 24 - Don't mess with God!
by nicolaou ingod tells david, "don't count my people".
david counts the people.. god tells david, "'cos you were naughty you gotta pick your punishment, will it be 'a' 7 years of famine, 'b' 3 months of national humiliation or 'c' 3 days of pestilence?
choose davey boy!".
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Saved by grace or by works?
by rootofallevil inaccording to the wts if we do not produce acts of good work (feild service, attending 5 meetings weekly, circuit and district assemblies etc), we are not worthy of salvation.
according to the bible, we attain salvation through god's undeserved grace ( or kindness in jw lingo).
what i am looking for is scriptural proof that will shoot down the first and support the latter.
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THE SHOOTIST
Ever thought about (graceful works)? Any way you look at it, it's going to take some fancy foot work to please this God. "I form light and create darkness. I make peace, and I create evil. I, the Lord, do all these things." Isaiah 45:7 "If gods do evil then they are not gods." Euripides "Whevever we read the obscene stories, the voluptuous debaucheries, the cruel and tortuous executions, the unrelenting vindictiveness with which more than half the Bible is filled it would be more consistent that we call it the word of a demon than the word of God." Thomas Paine "I cannot conceive of a God who rewards and punishes his creatures or has a will of the kind that we experience in ourselves." Albert Einstein
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WHO DID JESUS SPEAK TO IN PRAYER?
by PMJ injesus spoke to jehovah god in prayer.jehovah being the allmighty god.the nt is centered around jesus.thats true but this does not mean jesus is the one we should worship.surley we should all want to pray to the god jesus prayed two
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THE SHOOTIST
PMJ, Talking about feeling the wind, we can all feel the hot air you're blowing!!! Since I believe you're a man with heart and courage, just ask the Great Wizard of Oz for a brain that reasons on logic instead of blind faith. That's a prayer worth answering and your chances of getting it are far greater than the fictional Jesus teaching us to pray to some tribal mountain Baal God named Jehovah.
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Did You Help Anyone To Get Baptized?
by minimus ini did.
many, actually.
and i regret that they're (many) still active witnesses.
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THE SHOOTIST
I'm sorry to say I did. I took it upon myself to tell them all I was sorry and I hadn't intentionally lied to them. As a former elder and PO, I had 49 years tied up in this mess and I did a lot of damage to the people who listened to my big line of BS. I just didn't know it was BS. I've helped over 20 out so far in the past five years. I'm trying to make up for some of the damage I caused. I've taken more out than I ever brought in.
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how to behave in judical committee? pls help
by albertjw ini am new here, excuse my english.
it seems that some of you are serving or have been serving as elders and have judical committee experience (stillajwexelder for example).
i want to know how i must behave in jc meeting to avoid disfellowshipping.
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THE SHOOTIST
I was an elder and the P.O.. I have no respect for the organization and for its handling of judicial matters. You need to get out and be done with this mess. However, since that doesn't seem to be your mind-set at this time, here are my suggestions as if I'm still a JW elder. Have you considered talking to the sister and going together to confess your sins to the elders? That would be better for both of you. If she says that she isn't going to confess her wrongdoing, you're on your on with just your word against hers unless you provide another witness to the incidents. This means you could get reproved or disfellowshipped and nothing happens to her. The next thing to think about is if she doesn't confess, nothing happens to her but her reputation is ruined. Elders and their wives gossip. Committee meeting are the next best thing to having sex among some elders and they tell their wives all the juicy details. The other thing is if you go and confess your sins and refuse to name her as your cohort, this is considered as a non-repentant act. This increases your chances of disfellowshipping. If indeed you both have stopped the acts of porneia and some time has elapsed since the last sexual episode, it does show restraint on both your parts and is viewed favorably by most elders. I once sat on a judicial committee where a young sister pioneer and her MS boyfriend, to whom she was engaged, did the same things you're admitting to. Three months passed with no further incidents before they confessed to the elders. He was publicly reproved in his congregation. She was privately counseled, not reproved in ours. As P.O., I caught hell for that one from the C.O.. I felt like she had reproved herself enough emotionally for the months that had elapsed. With her strong sense of guilt, it nothing short of pure torture for her. Why should we on the committee discipline someone who had disciplined themselves? The C.O. said when a judicial committee is formed and wrong-doing is confessed, them minimum discipline is private reproof. The C.O. didn't go against our decision but he wasn't too happy with me. I hope this information helps you out whatever decision you make. As I said before, so shall I say again, LEAVE THIS ORGANIZATION. You're just a young man doing what comes natural and that's not a sin except in the eyes of these judgemental bastards.
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Wicked angel was driving the UFO the wise men saw
by Franz inif an angel was in a ufo that led the astrologers (the 'wise men') to the young child jesus in that house (mt 2:11), then it must have been a wicked angel.
we have these pagan astrologers (greek, "magoi"; see de 18:10-12 and isa 47:13,14) traveling along and they see a "star".
(how convenient; astrologers.....stars.....) does it lead them directly to jesus?
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THE SHOOTIST
Isn"t this JW reasoning. If so, wasn't Jesus born Oct. 1/2 2 B.C. If so, how could all this Herod, wisemen, star story have occurred when King Herod died in 4 B.C., and that census in Bethlehem that Joseph and Mary were going to register for happened in 6 C.E.? Again, like 607 B.C., JWs and history just can't agree.
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24
They upset me and depressed me :~(
by Spectrum ini tried to show the nature of jehovah to my mother and neice by using the story of the levite and the concubine and the awful carnage of the innocents jehovah santioned as a result of one rape and murder (judges 19-21).
they were both supporting jehovah's sanctioning of the murder of thousands of men, women and children.
at one point they said that i was getting too precious about the murdered children, that they would inevitably become like their parents, 99% of whom were innocent in this story anyway, and that what good would it do to leave them alive if the bread provider was dead in battle, better to finish them off too.
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THE SHOOTIST
NowImFree, First of all I want you to know that I'm not an athiest. I believe their is some form of creator and what his plans are and what the answers are to life and death, are conjecture at best. I just know we were not born in sin and the Bible is fiction interwoven with some historical information. I know we weren't created 6000 years ago and a global flood didn't occur 4500 years ago. I'm not going into a detailed explanation for these statements, just do your research and use logic. I'm 55 years old. I have a great wife and 2 wonderful children. I'm happy not knowing a detailed program of what the future holds. I just try enjoying life on a daily basis. Getting joy out of what I have instead of worrying about what I can't know the answers to. I believe that love is the answer to all things. A true being of love wouldn't be the Genesis God. In my heart I know that God is bigger than all religion and that its fiction to believe that he chooses one religion over another and he's only God to less than 20% of the world's population. My family is involved in maritial arts and we do an Indonesian style. Some of the Indonesians came here to give us some specialized training. We became the best of friends. I watched one of them get on his knees and pray to his Muslim God 5 times a day. This is one of the kindest men I've ever known. When my children went to Indonesia this summer to perform, he was one of their body guards. He would have died for them without hesitation. This man, with his eyes taped shut and a black hood over his head, can ride a bicycle, drive a car, walk through an obstacle course, pick up objects off the floor, and fight with deadly skill. I can tell you things that I've seen and we can do that challenge the imagination. The point is, Do you think God loves people like my muslim friends from Indonesia any less than he does a christian? These people teach people blind from birth to have a special sight that enables them to live somewhat normal lives. They have powers of healing that you cannot imagine. I've seen things that make me believe we are far more than what most people can conceive and we have untapped capablities that are nothing short of divine. Do I believe in some form of a God of love? YES!!! Can I tell you where to find him? NO!!! Do I have an idea of what God wants? Yes!!! Just do all things in LOVE. If we love people, we don't hurt them, judge them, or try to say God is partial, loving one over the other. I think if we look inside ourselves deeply and spiritually enough, we can find God. My ideas on the future, NOTHING BUT GOOD!!! WHAT ELSE COULD LOVE BRING? There is one thing I agree with that Paul said in 1 Corinthians chapter 15 and that is, IF THERE IS A PHYSICAL BODY, THERE IS ALSO A SPIRITUAL BODY. Did you ever think that maybe you can be in touch with the spiritual while being in the physical? SHOOTIST
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They upset me and depressed me :~(
by Spectrum ini tried to show the nature of jehovah to my mother and neice by using the story of the levite and the concubine and the awful carnage of the innocents jehovah santioned as a result of one rape and murder (judges 19-21).
they were both supporting jehovah's sanctioning of the murder of thousands of men, women and children.
at one point they said that i was getting too precious about the murdered children, that they would inevitably become like their parents, 99% of whom were innocent in this story anyway, and that what good would it do to leave them alive if the bread provider was dead in battle, better to finish them off too.
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THE SHOOTIST
NowImFree, Your comment about J's reply to you faith in Jesus and that you sense anger on his part in my opinion is being misread. Instead of projecting anger, was he projecting feelings of betrayal? Didn't you say that the God OF the Old Testament and his actions concerned you. Didn't Jesus say that if you have seen me, you have seen my father? Was J's commentS not reflecting the same concerns about the same kind of God? Does the Jesus of the Gospels compare with the sword weilding Jesus of Revelation? Another thing to consider is this. Didn't the anger of the Old Testament Jehovah require the blood sacrifice of the New Testament Jesus? What's the difference of Jehovah requiring blood sacrifices of animals and man as compared to the God's of the pagans requiring blood sacrifices of animals and man? I no longer believe in Jehovah or Jesus or the Bible because my concept of God requires higher standards than theirs. Another thing that bothers me about Jesus is that outside of christianity and some possibly tainted references of Josephus, the Biblical Jesus is more and likely fictitious. There were many saviours deified by millions prior to Jesus that met the same criterior as Jesus, meaning when you read about their lives it was like reading about the life of Jesus but with names like Attis, Krishna, and Dionysus. They all were born on December 25 of a virgin, died by crucifiction, had a resurrection, and worshipped as a saviour. Krishna and Dionysus traveled and performed miracles. Krishna, who had a star marking his birthplace and was sought by an evil ruler who killed thousand of infants in an effort to kill him, healed the sick, lepers, blind and deaf. Dionysus (Bacchus), put in a manger in swaddling clothes as an infant, was referred to as the Lamb of God, King of Kings, Only Begotten Son, bearer of sins, redeemer, Anointed One, Alpha and Omega. All the above died on March 25th, black Friday. SOUND FAMILIAR? These all predated Jesus, some by thousands of years. Some 40 historians and writers from that time period, including Philo who lived in the region around Jerusalem, recorded historical events in detail without ever mentioning Jesus. Historians can't even reconcile the time of his birth with historical events that are mentioned in the gospels. Herod died in 4 B.C. and the census Joseph and Mary supposedly went to in Bethlehem historically occurred in 6 C.E.. You make the math work. Some people on this board are just as offended by the contents of the New Testament as they are by the conduct of Jehovah in the Old Testament. Remember, the old gave birth to the new. If the old is flawed, what about the new? These comments of mine in no way are made in anger. I am so glad that you are free. If Jesus is what you need to believe in to be happy, please do so with my blessing. SHOOTIST
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Do you still read the bible?
by JH in.
i don't read it anymore.. i figure that i know enough of it, without having to go back and read it again.
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THE SHOOTIST
Having researched the history of the Bible carefully for the last few years, I no longer accept it as a valid guide. I consider it to be fiction with a few historical facts woven in the fabric. I consider fiction books like (The Davinci Code) to be more worthy of consideration and a lot more entertaining. The Bible isn't worth my time and I only use it on rare occasions to discredit its supporters.
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Where is the Passion now?
by sammielee24 injust a question.
many of us were passionate about the 'truth'.
our lives were the watchtower.
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THE SHOOTIST
Since I know who you are and since I was in you neighboring Kingdom Hall and since I was trapped for 49 years in the religion, I can cerainly empathize with your pain of uncertainty. Your thinking, what do I live for now? Let me tell you, there's lots of good life out there. Enjoying the simple things. Sitting on the porch of an evening watching the children play, the sunset, smelling the flowers, enjoying a cool drink or a bowl of ice-cream. Imagine doing this while everyone else is at all those damned old meetings. As an elder's wife you spent all that time getting the family ready for meetings and field service. We were kept so busy serving we never experienced living. Is it out of fear of not pleasing God that you're asking about going to another church? I went to some others churches 3 times. I couldn't get real excited about what they were doing. If you notice some of my posts and replies to posts I have steered away from religion of any type. I don't need their God of fear and I don't want their control in my life. I sat down a few years ago and said a ferverent prayer not necessarily directed to any being, but in this prayer I said I want to know the truth and I'm willing to pay the price the answer may require. Within a short period of time tons of information came flooding in to me but the information and direction wasn't to any church. The information turned out to be in short that God, whoever or whatever he is has to be bigger than the Bible and religion. I started to rethink God without the concept of being born in sin and needing a saviour. I started looking at history, archaeology, science, and modern discoveries to format my thinking. I've concentrated more on being a good person, a good neighbor, and the father to my children that I never was. I love everything about life more than ever and I try to get the most out of each moment of life. Sometimes I catch myself meandering as you call it when I can't get a handle on what I'm trying to say. I don't know if what I just tried to say makes any sense, but one thing for sure is that my life is better than it ever was as a witness. I'm not trying to tell you or anyone else on this board the answers to life and where to find them. There's just life and I think we should be busy living it!!!